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'It's very important to make a happy film that entertains'

The Hrishikesh Mukherjee interview continues...

What about audiences these days? They like something of everything. Like violence, sex, romance, dances...

Dharmendra in Satyakam Click for bigger pic!

I don't think we can make a film with the audience in mind always. It doesn't work that way at all. Something is making you very indignant and you want to convey that to the audience.

I read this book called Satyakam and I felt that indignation. I felt there should be no corruption when Independence comes. There should be honesty and this country should be beautiful.

But we find there is more corruption and the politicians are not patriotic at all. They are fighting amongst themselves. They don't care about the freedom of the country. That indignation was there within me. I made that film because of my feelings. It was a serious film and it didn't do well. That was my destiny.

Jaya Bachchan in Mili Click for bigger pic!

Then I heard about a short story about this girl who suffered a kind of anaemia. And she is going to die as a result. But she falls in love and wants to live too. So I made Mili. But since the audience wouldn't understand the kind of the disease I would mention I made it simple with leukemia. Then Golmaal and Khubsoorat were made when I felt that I should make a comedy.

One should have freedom to do what they want, but then isn't a little discipline good too? Look at the tantriks. To attain freedom, how much discipline they go through. If you convey what you feel, then you are successful.

I have my level of people, my generation who I explain these things to. I might not strike a chord with the front benchers maybe, but the middle class appreciates my films.

How did you meet Ritwik Ghatak?

Ritwik was a friend. I have never worked with him as such. He just helped me with my first film. We had a circle of friends who would discuss films everyday.

Ritwik, Mrinal (Sen), Bijon Bhattacharjee, Salil (Choudhary), Utpal (Dutt), myself. We were one group. Then I came to Bombay, Mrinal went to Kanpur and we got busy with our lives. We made films of our types. That's it.

You have worked with Bimal Roy too. What was he like as a person?

Bimal Roy is my film father. I have learnt from him. He was a man of tremendous sincerity. I have never seen him talking to a friend, going to a cinema or a party.

Twenty-four hours he would think of films. And he had so much confidence in himself that he would take a newcomer like me and make an editor out of him.

All the people he took under his wings are great artistes today. He had a tremendous knowledge and grasp of the medium. He was a very open minded man. He made me an editor and also a scriptwriter. He suggested I should write the script of Do Bigha Zameen. The story was Salil's and I wrote it.

How did you come about editing Ramu Kariat's Malayalam classic, Chemmeen?

Ramu was a good friend and he had shot Chemmeen. He had shot quite a bit and he didn't know what to do. He came to me and showed me what he had done and told me to edit it. He had shot the book page by page and there was a lot of material that wasn't required.

He left it to me to do what I wanted. So I shot a scene of waves crashing against the rocks since this was a film about a fishing village. This scene was then used to bridge two scenes that would have jarred if put one after another.

I have done many things like that to help friends. They had the confidence in me. And I am grateful to them that they found my suggestions important. That was my job. I was assisting, that's all.

How do you visualise scenes when you edited them?

Balaraj Sahni in Do Bigha Zameen Click for bigger pic!

There is a lot of imagination involved in making a film. Especially, if you are an editor too.

In Do Bigha Zameen, there is a rickshaw accident and when I wrote the script, I had imagined the camera following the wheel and people screaming and shouting. Then the next scene was in the night when the boy enters his house and asks his mother about the father.

There was something not right there. I shot the scene and I edited too, but I was not happy. The anxiety of the audience was not there and I thought why not transfer it to the child?

So what did I do? The moment the accident happens, I cut to a night scene and bang, the door flies open and the child enters, asking about his father.

Many advised that I should not cut a day scene directly to a night scene. But I was sure I did the right thing. It was perfect. One has to think about a scene this way, there is no doubt about that.

Even for Jhoot Bole I wanted to improvise a scene and I told Juhi about it. She liked it so much she wanted to re-shoot the scene again. I refused. But I will keep that in mind and maybe use it somewhere else.

Have you ever had formal training in film-making?

Hrishikesh Mukherjee with Anil Kapoor on the sets of Jhoot Bole Kauva Kaate Click for bigger pic!

There were no schools those days. We had to learn hands on. For me, Bimalda was the best institution I could ever hope to get. Also B N Sircar.

We learnt everything from the old masters by observing them constantly. That is why, though we friends had one mind about things, we still made films of our type. There was not much similarity in our films.

Of course, if I had been in Calcutta, I would have made those kinds of films. Because in Bombay there is such a cosmopolitan set-up, I made films, which had that flavour.

In a Bengali film, one wears a dhoti and kurta, in the south they wear a vesti and in the north a kurta-pajama. The culture has to be maintained.

Is that how you gave that distinct look to your characters in Anand?

In Anand, one was a Bengali and one was a Punjabi. So it was clear what they had to look like. I got the idea to make this film after I became friends with Raj Kapoor.

In fact it is a kind of biography. I wrote Anand when Raj Kapoor was not well. He was suffering from a pulse problem, but he still managed to smile and spread happiness around. I used to think if something happens to him, what will happen to me? We all were worried about him and he would be smiling always. The same way Amitabh would worry and Rajesh would brush it off.

Have you ever re-shot an entire scene after editing it?

Only once have I re-shot a whole scene after editing it. But I don't do it otherwise. Not because I can't afford it. I was producing my own films then and I could have done anything I wanted. But I had confidence that I could do it at the shooting itself. I didn't need to re-shoot them again. I made Anand in 30 days and I was confident of what I shot.

Rajesh Khanna didn't give you any trouble, such was his reputation then?

No he didn't. He gave me the required dates and shot through. He didn't give me any trouble at all. I used to call him Pintu Baba. I give nicknames to everyone. I call Amitabh 'Maharaj'.

You must have your favourite actors and actresses though.

I can tell you of my favourite actress. Durgabai (Durga Khote). She was a brilliant lady and she was there in most of my films too. I had this feeling that with Durgabai in my film, it has to be successful. I considered her very lucky for me. It was her blessing.

Another actor I liked was Deven Verma. He always had a very joyful face. I liked his laugh very much. And Utpal Dutt. I almost stopped making films after his death. He was a very learned man and very close to me.

I like to laugh a lot. Sometimes I get indignant and then I make films like Satyakam. They are hardly anything to laugh about. They are very serious subjects. But mostly I want to laugh and make people laugh too. Even Jhoot Bole. Don't expect my film to be very poignant at all. It's a very simple film.

One film you wanted to make is the one Shantanu Sheorey is making now. Jadh. Why didn't you?

Jadh was my script and it was written for a company where I was a chairman. Now I am not there anymore. So I think the story must have been sold to Shantanu. His choice of actors must be right since he is directing it.

Amitabh Bachchan and Jaya Bachchan in Abhimaan Click for bigger pic!

I always chose actors that way too. When I chose Sharmila Tagore for Anupama, people told me that she is a misfit because she has an image of a bikini-clad modern girl.

My heroine is supposed to be shy and simple. But I stuck to the choice and it was accepted so well. When I took Johnny Walker in Anand, they told me the same thing.

Characterisation in your films is always important. Even a cameo stands out. How does this happen?

Characterisation is very important in a film. Even Dara Singh and Durgabai were important in Anand for me.

I am the director of a film. I am the head of a family. So one has to give equal importance to all the children in the family. That's how I treated the characters in the film too.

How would you rate good cinema? Is it something that conveys a message or is it something that is just entertaining?

Entertainment is not a condemned word. It's very important to make a happy film that entertains too. But you got to make people think too. A good film is one which entertains and makes you think too.

The greatest entertainer in this world was Charlie Chaplin. He could make you laugh, cry and at the same time make you think. Only he could manage that.

What are your plans after this?

I have no plans as of now. I am old with these artificial knees. I find it difficult to go out often. I am living for today now. I don't have a future really. All this time I was offered films all the time and I am being offered now. But then I have restrictions because of my age. My mind works, but my body refuses to co-operate.

Once Tagore was asked why he wrote such complicated language. Why couldn't he write in simple language? He replied, you ask me to write simply, but simple things cannot be said simply. I learnt from Bimalda how not to glamourise a shot and how to keep it as simple as possible.

When I am talking to you, I am not standing above you. I am talking to you at the same eye level. The camera should be at the same level. Eye to eye.

Hrishikesh Mukherjee's photographs: Jewella Miranda